How about Ollech & Wajs?

...

Incidentally, I followed your 'Made in Japan' thread with interest, sadly the 'MIJ' tag is echoed elsewhere too - don't know if your into guitars, but the higher end Edwards LP models were long believed to be Made in Japan and certainly marketed as such but are now accepted as or at the least understood to be machined in China and then assembled and finished in Japan. This of course allowed for the MIJ labelling...

Sorry, totally random, should have stuck that to your other thread....

Anyway, cheers

Howie

 

How about Ollech & Wajs?

...

Incidentally, I followed your 'Made in Japan' thread with interest, sadly the 'MIJ' tag is echoed elsewhere too - don't know if your into guitars, but the higher end Edwards LP models were long believed to be Made in Japan and certainly marketed as such but are now accepted as or at the least understood to be machined in China and then assembled and finished in Japan. This of course allowed for the MIJ labelling...

Sorry, totally random, should have stuck that to your other thread....

Anyway, cheers

Howie

Thanks for the feedback Howie.　Before I found out about this I would be really shocked to find out that a Les Paul with a `Made in Japan` label was actually made (machined) in China. Now, I find myself questioning everything.

:thumbsup: I do appreciate the photo, I have an Epiphone SG myself, not quite as flash aï½" yours though. Mine actually says Made in Korea on the label, I wonder if that is machined in China also.

 

Most companies are not big enough to run a line of all their own parts. It's not just the labour that is less costly, but it is just much more convenient. It's not just chinese parts, but swiss parts too. An ETA or valjoux movement, which probably utilitizes a blend of swiss and far east parts. The same with Seiko probably having at least a couple parts bought from external sources.

I think we have been through this before. It's the global age and you should expect that pretty much nothing is made exclusively from one location. I bought a fancy ukulele in hawaii and the bridge was made in switzerland. I bought Kona coffee from a plantation that makes decaf using a Vancouver processing plant. Should I have expected that the ukulele manufacture start their own bridge making company? or the coffee plantation to invest in a decaf machine that sits idle for 360 days a year?

The notion that something should need to be made from one place is reminiscent of the time when watchmakers worked independantly, or part of small workshops, where they made each piece by hand. But those days are gone and even the most exclusive houses use a production line approach. Now, it is the global production line. At the end, they are made by people, or machines operated by people.

 

Thanks for your input MSQ. I do agree with some of the things you said but I sort of see them in a different light. I do agree that smaller watch companies can't always manufacture their own parts, so I can understand that they would have to order different parts externally, or else it would take a week or so just to produce a hand full of watches. My gripe is with the larger companies who get cheap parts from China and splash a whopping price tag on the watch just because of the makers name. They could have manufactured the parts domestically and still sold it for less to get a handsome profit.

In this years line up for Orient watches, I was surprised to hear from them that none of their watches are exclusively Japanese, but the price tag of their Royal Orient range certainly does suggests that they are. An undiscerning customer would expect the price and the name of Royal Orient to be the crème de la crème and would be surprised to find out their small fortune of a watch contains Chinese parts.

About your Ukulele, I does surprise me that the bridge is made in Switzerland. I would have thought that would make it more expensive rather than cutting costs. Personally, if I was fortunate to go to Hawaii (very jealous :beach: ) and saw a fancy ukulele, being in Hawaii one would probably expect it to be Hawaiian, but knowing what I know now, I think I would ask to make sure. If however it had a label similar to Howie77's guitar, with `Made in Hawaii` written on it then......I think I will still ask. I am surprised that they can't make the bridge in Hawaii as they can make the body there. It is only a small part of the ukulele, does it have to be a certain type of wood to get a better performance?

About the coffee, I'm a tea man myself and you can't beat a good old cup of Yorkshire Tea. Anyway, I am not a coffee drinker so you might laugh at my ignorance. Looking it up on the internet Kona Coffee is a market name for coffee cultivated on the slopes of Hualalai and Mauna Loa of Hawaii. So lets say you bought a cup of Kona Coffee which has been processed in a Canadian processing plant to make it decaffeinated. I still believe you are getting 100% Kona Coffee and the coffee process in Vancouver hasn't interfered with the 100% Kona Coffee. It is still pure.

If you have a Tissot watch that says Swizz Made on the face, but main spring, jealous and rotor are made and cased in Hong Kong. I think it a little deceiving to call label it Swizz Made. Maybe I am too naive, but I would prefer them to be honest and say, what parts are Swizz and if it has been put together and cased in China, they shouldn't be afraid to say that. By them not openly admitting where the watches are made, it make them look more fishy.

Hope your not too annoyed that I don't really see eye to eye with your example.

 

Yes there are manufacturers where their watches are solely made in country of origin.

Off the top of my head,

Rolex

Breitling

Tag Heuer

Zenith

Audermars Piguet

Vacheron Constantin

Patek Philippe

Ulysse Nardin

IWC

Jaeger-LeCoultre

Girard-Perregaux

I'm sure there are many more, but can't remember them right now

 

Shanghai

Sea-Gull

BWaF

Dixmont

All of the above are Manufactures i.e. build at least some of their watches entirely in-house with in-house designs, and all use parts sourced entirely in their country-of-origin, and own their brand names. They are of course all Chinese.

Once upon a time (say 25 years ago) there were maybe 50 factories in China who could make the same claim (apart from the in-house designs of which there were only a few dozen). Horizontal integration is a fact of life in this modern globalized world.

Timex watches are probably made primarily entirely in a single country, be that Thailand, Philipines, Mexico or China, depending on the particular model, however unlike in the past (when they made watches in USA, Scotland and Taiwan) they are not necessarily made in Timex factories. I'm pretty sure their mechanical models are entirely out-sourced to Chinese companies. However it is worth noting that this has not adversely affected the quality of the product.

I understand the attraction of entirely in-house products. I started the day wearing a (borrowed) vintage Rolex, switched to a vintage Westclox and will probably wear a Poljot later today. My biggest disappointment with my new Shanghai is that it is one of their outsourced models. But I'm not so fussed about the odd 'foreign' part inside my watches.

 

...and then we get to question of what degree to you take it too?

Even if your case was "Made In Germany" - where did the steel come from?

Where did the raw materials to make the steel come from??

Whilst in would be excellent to be able to believe your watch was made solely in-house, I think with globalisation, that's an impossible aspiration these days.

For me, what is important is that the watchmaker is responsible for the design, responsible for sourcing the components, takes responsibility for the quality. I don't much care if a cog or a srew comes from China in my Swiss watch - you either trust the brand or you don't.

So I'm much more likely to buy into a brand who is transparent about what they do, rather than those who continue to insist that everyone of their watches is individually made by a Swiss artisan living in his village cottage fashioning miniature components in his back room...

Big brands = mass factory production with internationally sourced components.

 

It was ever thus! :yes:

Rolex and many others at one time exported "movements only" to be cased in the country they were destined for, mainly to avoid Customs or other Taxes in the destination country. :yes:

In more modern times, I'd hazard a guess that perhaps some of the few makers who would source ALL or MOST parts internally from their own wholly or partly owned plants and factories would be the large volume makers such as Swatch and Timex. It makes sense to have total control if you're making thousands of watches each week - you can't afford to have seven thousand movements and only four thousand cases plus eight thousand straps skittling around waiting to be married up

2c worth :to_become_senile:

 

Bobby - your list included -

Breitling - ETA MOVEMENT

Tag Heuer - NOT A CHANCE

IWC - ETA MOVEMENT

The movements in these watches may be modified by those companies, but fundamentally they are ETA, and from what I have read, ETA themselves use countries like china at some point in production, and therefore by default the above brands have Chinese elements in them.

 

Breitling has also used quartz Miyota movement in the past (when they were poor and not successful) - this is after Breitling Geneve sold out to Shneider.

It would be nice to think that a German or Swiss watch is made 100% with German or Swiss parts/components. For many brands, a fair estimate is 35% (average) made in its own Country.

The Swiss (FHS) state that a Swiss made watch must have a Swiss movement and must be assembled in Switzerland to be labelled Swiss made. The fact that the Swiss movement is partially made with components from China or the whole movement is also made in China defeats the object.

Several Swiss brands state that their movements are made in house. This is not the case as Swiss manufacturers like Soprod and Claro use components from Seagull. Big Group - Chung Nam holds ISA Hong Kong + Switzerland and Swiss made (?) brand Roamer (even if Roamer, in recent years are trying to "move away" from mother China).

Low quality and lack of continuity is shown on brands like Revue-Thommen and Grovana. The latter has had many of their watches made in China hence, logos and movements differ from one watch to the other with customers assuming that some are fakes . Revue-Thommen and other websites state "hand-built movement" where, in fact, there are no facilities at the factory to make any movement what so ever.

With reference to the top of the tops "Rolex" - a number of their components are also made outside Switzerland.

A company that comes to mind and still uses almost all components made in Germany and Switzerland is Sothis. Pure madness in my opinion (each lug is screwed in to the case) as costs and sale price on the watch is too expensive compared to better known and cheaper brands.

Mel is absolutely right - in modern times global trading is an easy solution for many as profit are more important than quality

 

I'm beginning to think everything is made in china.

 

I think Minerva are still making and using movements they designed back in the fifties and use some of the original tools to make them!

 

I think Nomos are made in house...well the movements are made in Glashütte,I'm not so sure about the cases.

What about the Russians? I kinda feel my Boctok is all Russian

 

Vostok even used to make their own synthetic ruby jewels in-house....

 

“â€What I was trying to say without saying it is that sometimes it may have been sourced there because it is better sourced there.â€â€

The truth is that Europe manufacturers have become greedy. So many factories from Europe have moved to the Far East because an employee is paid around $120 per month, instead of £1,000 in UK and € 1000 in the Eurozone.

“â€They can probably produce better bolts for a lower priceâ€â€. Lower price being the (marketing) main issue. :lookaround:

“â€Finally, it is not companies hiding the fact that watches are not made in a particular place. In fact, if you phone up the manufacturerâ€â€

I am sorry, but they do hide a lot of facts. If you wish I can give you the telephone numbers for Tag-Heuer, Omega, Breitling and so on and no one will tell you what they actually do. :wallbash:

“â€There are rules in each country that manufacturersâ€â€ â€" Rules are there to be broken (often)

“â€you can complain to the persons responsible for the legislationâ€â€

â€" Sorry â€" but we might as well write to Father Christmas in Lapland. :clown: :clown:

""If you don't think an orient or seiko or beijing or waltham or whatever should be worth a certain price, then simply don't buy it. If you think a Chinese made watch should be worth less because it cost less to produce, then by all means don't buy it. A lot of people would not pay thousands on a Grand Seiko because there are those who don't think a Japanese watch is worth that kind of money. It is your choice. As I said before, it is very difficult to find any product in the world that isn't a chimera of origins in this day and age. Every one wants to make money. You can decide if they deserve to earn yours ""

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Indeed, you are right. In fact I would not buy a Breitling or a Tag-Heuer to start with. BUT, how many will agree with your last paragraph? Production for Doc Martin shoes was moved to China and Thailand in 2007. We pay the same for their shoes but the company is making higher margins. Royal Doulton is made in Indonesia and the matter of the fact is that we are losing jobs in England (and Europe) - losing true British tradition and all for ........?? .... keeping the shareholders happy!!! :wine: :afro: :afro:

It is a sad world but cheer up by looking in Google at Utopia World (word and pictures say it all) :goof: :goof:

 

“â€What I was trying to say without saying it is that sometimes it may have been sourced there because it is better sourced there.â€â€

The truth is that Europe manufacturers have become greedy. So many factories from Europe have moved to the Far East because an employee is paid around $120 per month, instead of £1,000 in UK and € 1000 in the Eurozone.

“â€They can probably produce better bolts for a lower priceâ€â€. Lower price being the (marketing) main issue. :lookaround:

“â€Finally, it is not companies hiding the fact that watches are not made in a particular place. In fact, if you phone up the manufacturerâ€â€

I am sorry, but they do hide a lot of facts. If you wish I can give you the telephone numbers for Tag-Heuer, Omega, Breitling and so on and no one will tell you what they actually do. :wallbash:

“â€There are rules in each country that manufacturersâ€â€ â€" Rules are there to be broken (often)

“â€you can complain to the persons responsible for the legislationâ€â€

â€" Sorry â€" but we might as well write to Father Christmas in Lapland. :clown: :clown:

""If you don't think an orient or seiko or beijing or waltham or whatever should be worth a certain price, then simply don't buy it. If you think a Chinese made watch should be worth less because it cost less to produce, then by all means don't buy it. A lot of people would not pay thousands on a Grand Seiko because there are those who don't think a Japanese watch is worth that kind of money. It is your choice. As I said before, it is very difficult to find any product in the world that isn't a chimera of origins in this day and age. Every one wants to make money. You can decide if they deserve to earn yours ""

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Indeed, you are right. In fact I would not buy a Breitling or a Tag-Heuer to start with. BUT, how many will agree with your last paragraph? Production for Doc Martin shoes was moved to China and Thailand in 2007. We pay the same for their shoes but the company is making higher margins. Royal Doulton is made in Indonesia and the matter of the fact is that we are losing jobs in England (and Europe) - losing true British tradition and all for ........?? .... keeping the shareholders happy!!! :wine: :afro: :afro:

It is a sad world but cheer up by looking in Google at Utopia World (word and pictures say it all) :goof: :goof:

Sorry about my late reply.

Yes I do agree with you. I also recently found out that Royal Doulton is made in Indonesia. I wanted to replace a broken saucer and was shocked to read `Made in Indonesia` on the bottom. Well at least they are honest about where it was made, it was pretty cheap so I didn't mind that much. If it was for the same price that I paid originally I would have been a little disappointed.

For all you cleaver watch fanatics out there. Are there any automatic formal watches out there that are domestically made (parts, movement and cased domestically) for around 800 pounds (1,128 USD or 923 EUR)?

I was after a Japanese domestically made watch, but they seem to be out of my price range. The Credor, Grand Seiko and Galante watches are the only domestically made watches that I know of and I believe that some of the Seiko Brightz range (Maybe just the 6S type) are made domestically. Unfortunately they are way over 1000 pounds.

Are there any watches that are still made in England?