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Tinkering

2.3K views 74 replies 18 participants last post by  al_kaholik  
#1 · (Edited)
As promised to @Steve1981 I said that I had to capture the process of servicing a watch. This is part one of that. Hopefully it would be of use to some of the people who want to give it a try or even just those are interested in seeing how I go about this. Apologies for the quality of pictures the general rotation and not consistent direction. Something I need to sort out is a camera and lighting.

I thought I’d just give a little bit of insight into what I do. Very happy for any comments or constructive criticism if anybody has any. Also, I’m aware that my bench mat is dusty and dirty! This is for disassembly it will be cleaned before reassembly. I was fighting the clock a little bit.

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The first thing I will do is have a quick visual on the outside. If it’s covered in all sorts of DNA, it will get a cursory clean before I go anywhere near the inside. On this one, the crown was actually completely locked and so there was a full wind in the spring. I had a real challenge getting the back as it was really tight and the notch has been put in a less than desirable position. Once I finally got it off (which I knew I could as the seller have pictures with the back off) I had another quick visual for any dirt inside or rust.

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I let down the main spring all the way by releasing the click. Interestingly this is something that I’ve never seen before (I’m fairly early in my watch servicing journey) is this gooseneck type click spring. I then put some wind back into the main spring to see if the watch will spring back to life. In this case it didn’t and so I gave the balance a quick blow with some air to see if it would move freely. It did move a bit which means that probably the impulse jewel is in the correct place. What’s encouraging is that the hands also turn as the balance does. It’s probably just gummed up with old oil. A classic need of a service.

Next I de-case the movement and take the hands and dial off. It looks pretty nice in there; a few specs on the dial which I’ll maybe have a look at later. Given the lug width is 16mm and the style I’d guess this is a 50s watch. Perhaps later down the line, I’ll find something out. It also appears to be gold plated or rolled, but I can’t see any hallmarks anywhere.

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With the dial safely stored in the box I next take off the dial washer, hour wheel and then the canon pinion. And now I’ll switch to the movement holder. I’m taking lots of pictures as I go so that I don’t mess up when it goes back together.

Before I continue, I’ll let down the main string entirely to ensure that there’s no risk of damaging it later.

I like to start with the dial side and get the keyless works out. After that I flipped the movement over and then remove the setting lever screw if it hasn’t dropped out, click spring and it’s screw.

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Next is the ratchet wheel and I guess the barrel bridge? I can’t find any identifying marks on this movement so I’m really going in a little bit blind. (Post disassembly note, It’s a CAL400 from Ingersoll). One of the reasons I really love this Bergeron plastic movement holder is because you can really tighten it down without worry of damaging the movement so it doesn’t escape from you when you put pressure on a screw to unwind it.

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Any screws that are different lengths that come out the holes I like to rest back on the movement and take a picture so I’ve got a reference of where they came out of in this case. There’s two different length screws which fit in different holes, one of them is shouldered and one of them is not. I also like to capture the screws with the part they come off in my parts container.

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I’ve noticed something here which again is completely alien to me. The winding wheel is attached to the bridge and the barrel is open. I guess this makes servicing much easier and also the bill of parts cheaper.

The barrel is slightly captured by the train bridge so the balance and the train bridge will have to come off next. This reveals the escapement underneath.

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Once the train bridge is off, we can see all the wheels. I’ve tried to lay them out in the picture for reference when I put them back together. I’ve also removed the barrel and the last piece here is a brass block which holds an intermediate wheel.


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And that’s the movement stripped ready to clean. There are seven jewels on this one, one on the balance and one of the main plate and the rest on the bridges. I’ll have a go at those after it’s been through the first wash.

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#20 ·
Brilliant @al_kaholik im actually really glad your starting to get a bit more confident as the time goes on and the freshly serviced (by you) allwyn watch is running perfectly with out a hiccup so I know you gonna smash this one , ingersoll has been on my list for a while and the newer ones look very complicated as they are mostly skeleton watches with mechanical movements that look a lot better than a nh35 , good luck on your quest your doing great , pictures are great , write up is spot on for newbies like me so cheers for your time pal

hopefully in a few weeks we can catch up over another coffee
 
#21 ·
Cleaning.

My method is quite a simple one, once disassembled I’ll use peg wood to scrape anything that looks heavy and funky. The jewel holes all get a go through with some sharpened pegwood to loosen anything off.

I’ll fill the ultrasonic with hot water from the coffee machine with just a little tap water and a drip of dish soap. Probably about 80c. Then in goes the case and the crystal, which is taken out after around 30 seconds. The case will have the full 2 minute cycle.

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The small parts go into a basket to make them easier to remove once finished. I’ll usually dip screws into the solution whilst it’s going as they aren’t especially dirty and means I can keep a track of what is what.

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Once this is done I have a two stage approach, the first is a trip in the ultrasonic in some 99.9% IPA (sealed jar) for everything except the balance and pallet fork. I’ve had quite a lot of luck with this.

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Anything clearly very greasy then gets a second go in some Essence of Renata (in an essence jar with ground sealing lid). This is a proper degreaser, and stinks like it too. I have a look when it’s all dried (blow and lint free tissue) and if something is still mucky it’ll go back in again


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#22 · (Edited)
And a bit of an update on the rebuild, and a sneak preview - it’s ticking which is more than it did before. But still some issues to address!

Mainspring removed, cleaned with a lint free tissue and given a tiny lick with Moebius 9010. Then most of the residue is wiped away. I hand wound it in, turns out the spring winders I bought are all but useless because I really need something more generic.

The barrel as we established earlier is open and has a wheel on the bottom of it. This was a source of frustration as it came away from its friction fit position. I ended up taking off the wheel and its clip (accidentally) and then reinstalling using a hand pusher. No doubt a staking set would have been better but I’ve swung the tools I have. I’ll take pictures in the inevitable future disassembly of this!

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I won’t post too much of the reassembly. Mostly the opposite of disassembly but with oiling. I’ve given a stab at using the right type in the right places, 9010, HP1300 and 9504 grease.

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Amplitude and running was still very poor until I lubricated the pallet pins and now we have a fairly good runner, though looks well off time in the slow direction. The canon pinion had no friction when I removed it, I’m assuming it is meant to be like this? But there does seem to be some drive issues to the hour and minute hands which needs further investigation.

Something non functional to something I’ll call a win is quite satisfying.
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#26 ·
Possibly though not sure if that is needed. There are a number of wheels which mesh, but I wasn’t entirely happy with how they did. So it may just be something has come unseated. Either way it’ll be something that I can look at.

Number two that I got is something that will be a bit more familiar to me. Running but had issues with time setting. Movement was a nightmare to get out because of a melted plastic movement ring which I presume is part of the waterproofing. To be honest a nice fat o-ring can go in place if I can’t get the right size gasket.

The dial is immaculate but it has a scuffed up crystal which needs some attention. It’s also a bit bigger than I expected so likely won’t be staying.
 
#25 ·
Nice thread and great skills🤙. I’ve a couple of non runners you can have if you like. One runs but the stem is too long so I never wore it and the other is an auto that runs and stops at date changeover. You’re welcome to them if you want them👍. There’s a jump hour watch too in the box. That ran for a week then stopped and never worked again. Just drop me a pm if you want them to mess with
 
#28 ·
Not the Ingersol, but having to get creative.

I appear to have lost the pin that secures a mainspring. Not sure what has happened or where it has gone. Said watch (This Tissot https://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/threads/historically-important-watches.173923/) runs (SUCCESS!) but timing is all over the place. The hairspring is also bent which may be what caused some of the issues with it stopping and being boxed so long.

Bad microscope shot with the phone. The hairspring needs work and I’m building up to this. But micro engineering took place this morning

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It started life as a movement assembled stem. I think for @Bricey’s Citizen diver.
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#31 ·
This thread jumps about a bit, so apologies if anyone is trying to follow. More of a diary or portfolio for me than a linear start/finish.

AS 2066
The other watch that I picked up was rather nice featuring a nice Swiss movement. I have a love and hate relationship with AS movements. They are wonderful to put together and line up everything very well but the date springs are my nemesis. They just end up all over the place for me despite how hard I try.

The date and day would set however there was no ability to set the time. This movement has a sliding pinion on the second wheel (great wheel) to do this. It was gummed up with old lubricant. Finally it freed after a couple of trips in the ultrasonic steeped in Renata and with some persuasion with tweezers. I’m now confident that this will work when synthetic lubricant is used.

The offending part, and some other information from elsewhere online TimeZone : TZ Showcase Archive » Repair question about AS 2066 movement

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I also finally managed to use a spring winder for its intended purpose rather than sitting in a box, really a poor tool choice on my part. However by drilling out one of the bodies I’ve successfully used a different arbour/winder combination to seat the mainspring for this. Result. I’ve my eyes on some adjustable K&D ones which I think will better suit my needs but they tend to be expensive, only second hand and mostly in the USA.

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In other tool news we’ve been discussing hand setting with pusher tools. This might also be of interest @Charlie the collector and @Callum_5464. Sticky sticks. Tacky enough to hold but release very easily.

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#32 ·
I've had two watches with the AS 2066, both Talis models, both with Kif Trior shock protection. The first one, with the movement signed Solvil et Titus, was supposed to have been serviced, but the calendar wheels began sticking after not every long. Took it to a local repairer, as it turned out, between lockdowns. It took forever to get it back, they said they had difficulty getting the parts. It did work okay after that.

The second one came with a broken stem. I thought that would be easy to replace and it was. However, after a while it became very stiff to set the time and eventually it wouldn't move the hands at all. I wondered if that's how the original stem got snapped. I sent that one to another repairer. He said the clutch wheel, winding pinion and set lever spring were all badly worn and had to be replaced. Turned out an expensive repair and I nearly didn't go through with it, but I like the watch, so I gritted my teeth and paid up.

I wish I had the determination and patience to do that kind of repair myself, but I don't. I'm very wary of buying another AS 2066 to be honest.

This is the repairer's picture of the original clutch wheel.
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