Heads Up On Yet Another 7A38 Franken

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Posted (edited) · Report post

At the risk of becoming boringly repetitive .... :yawn:

I thought it might be a good idea to keep these together (in future) under one '7A38 Franken' thread. :pardon:

Besides, it might save a few folks having to keep sending me PM's. :wink:

To quote Shawn ('MrTeaTime') from last year:

That's a wrong 'un that, Dude .... I can tell from here. :tongue2:

Listed overnight on eBay in the USA (with worldwide shipping offered) was this attractive looking variant:

VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO (PVD) ANALOGUE QTZ 7A38-7280 CHRONO

7A38-7290-BlackFrankenWith7A380-728.jpg

7A38-7290-BlackFrankenWith7A380--1.jpg

Which isn't quite what it seems. :huh:

For one, thing, it's not 'PVD' .... but Seiko's Black Chrome Plating. :rolleyes:

Edited by jasonm

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Posted (edited) · Report post

VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO (PVD) ANALOGUE QTZ 7A38-7280 CHRONO

Which isn't quite what it seems. :huh:

Because it probably started life as a black chrome plated 7A38-7290, which looks like this:

7A38-7290-BlackBlack-eBay-August200.jpg

At some point, the standard white on black tachymeter dial ring has been changed for a silver one ....

.... which could have come out of any number of 7A38's, and it's black plated crown changed for a gold one. :rolleyes:

The saddest thing about this particular watch, because just about everything else:

bezel, watch-case, pusher buttons; bracelet, SQ clasp, 727L dial face; hands, etc ....

are all correct, is that it's lost it's original 7A38-7290 (or possibly 7A38-7295) case-back ....

.... to have it replaced with one from a (more common) Gold-tone creamy-white-faced 7A38-7280.

In case you're wondering what a Gold-tone 7A38-7280 looks like, a couple of correct recent examples from eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320509223154 and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300409176353

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Because it probably started life as a black chrome plated 7A38-7290 ....

At some point, the standard white on black tachymeter dial ring has been changed for a silver one ....

.... and it's black plated crown changed for a gold one. :rolleyes:

To return this watch to it's original 'correct' 7A38-7290 configuration would be a relatively simple exercise. :)

You'll need a p/n 84320843 Black Tachy dial ring (as used in the stainless 7A38-7270 and black 7A38-7290)

- or possibly get away with using p/n 84311023 (from the stainless 7A38-7020; 7A38-7029 and 7A38-7260) :unsure:

and a Seiko p/n 45M80EH1 black chrome plated crown (stocked by Cousins UK under their p/n S15068). :)

Oh. And the correct 7A38-7290 case back:

7A38-7290-BlackBlack-eBay-August-1.jpg

.... which are pretty much 'unobtanium'. :(

If you're a purist, it might be just as easy to change that '8' to a '9', as the rest of the stampings are very similar. :wink2:

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Well worth wile IMO keeping the 7A38 Franken thread going Paul thumbsup.gif I looked at this watch too and noticed the crown and tachy ring didnt look quite right and had my suspicions, but wasnt quite sure! Now I now, cheers. Seems like too much hassle to restore it to its former glory! For me its a definate thumbdown.gif

Edited by Paul66

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Seems like too much hassle to restore it to its former glory! For me its a definate thumbdown.gif

Well worth the effort, IMHO, Paul - even if it means having the case-back re-stamped - especially if it comes cheaply. :wink:

This is a correct 7A38-7290:

DSCF1331-Resized.jpg

.... with some plating wear on the bracelet, which I sold last October for £156. :)

That 7A38-7280/-7290 'Franken' already has a first bid @ $50. It'll be interesting to see what it goes for in 4 day's time.

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted · Report post

DSCF1331-Resized.jpg

.... with some plating wear on the bracelet, which I sold last October for £156. smile.gif

That 7A38-7280/-7290 'Franken' already has a first bid @ $50. It'll be interesting to see what it goes for in 4 day's time.

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Posted · Report post

.... it also appears to have less plating wear. Especially on the band.

They were about the same on the underside of the bracelet and clasp. Check the third of the eBay seller's photos.

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Posted · Report post

I love these threads as I haven't got a clue when it comes to Seikos and it's really interesting reading, keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

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Posted (edited) · Report post

.... keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

Thanks. :)

The saddest thing about this particular watch, because just about everything else:

bezel, watch-case, pusher buttons; bracelet, SQ clasp, 727L dial face; hands, etc ....

are all correct, is that it's lost it's original 7A38-7290 (or possibly 7A38-7295) case-back ....

Just realized I did a little typo, back there :blush: - should read 722L dial face.

I was just studying some photos of a 7A38-7295 (the only one I've ever seen, anywhere - on eBay in the Philippines) ....

.... and just figured out for myself (from the lack of 'Japan' at the bottom of the dial face) ....

.... and some almost illegible extra stamping in the middle of the (re-polished) case-back .... :umnik2:

That the 7A38-7295 was actually a Malaysian-built version of the 7A38-7290. So I'm still learning too. :)

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted · Report post

Please keep these warnings coming SEIKO7A38Fan. I’m looking for one of these and it really helps when you point out the dodgy ones. Thanks.

Is there a site for 7a38's that shows the different versions?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Is there a site for 7a38's that shows the different versions?

No, not yet, anyway. :wink:

Probably the nearest (online, and on RLT) you'll find is Post #82, that I made in the '7A38 Vulcan' thread, last year:

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=42608&st=75

But, if you've got MS Excel on your PC, and want to see 'the definitive 7A38 list' ....

.... (with identifying details, but no photos, as yet) .... PM me your eMail address.

If not, click on this link to Seiko Oceania's (Australia) database: http://service.seiko.com.au/pls/seiko/f?p=104:20:4461192873310266 ....

.... and key 7A38 into the [Calibre] field and hit the 'Search' button. That'll give you about 95% of the variants. :wink:

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted (edited) · Report post

They were about the same on the underside of the bracelet and clasp. Check the third of the eBay seller's photos.

The more I look at the sellers photo's the better it looks! I better not look any more, it may end up costing me!!!

Edited by Paul66

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Posted · Report post

Besides, it might save a few folks having to keep sending me PM's.

Thanks Boss!!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

That 7A38-7280/-7290 'Franken' already has a first bid @ $50. It'll be interesting to see what it goes for in 4 day's time.

Well, I guess we'll never know now. :(

In case you missed it, this was the eBay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120554523740

If you scroll to the bottom of the description, you can see that the eBay seller amended it during the night:

On Apr-09-10 at 14:37:03 PDT, seller added the following information:

Old Title: VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO (PVD) ANALOGUE 7A38-7280 CHRONO WATCH

New Title: VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO BLACK CHROME PLATING ANALOGUE 7A38-7280 CHRONO WATCH

Correction:

* This watch Tachymeter dial ring has been changed from black to white.

* The back case changed from 7A38-7290 to 7A38-7280

* This watch is Seiko’s black chrome plating not PVD

* Black plated crown changed to gold crown

Pretty much in line with what I'd written in my first couple of posts. :smartass:

I suspect someone may have drawn his attention to this thread, which he acted on accordingly, and ....

.... then, sometime after that, a 'person unknown' made him an offer to end the auction early (off eBay). :lookaround:

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted · Report post

That 7A38-7280/-7290 'Franken' already has a first bid @ $50. It'll be interesting to see what it goes for in 4 day's time.

Well, I guess we'll never know now. sad.gif

In case you missed it, this was the eBay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=120554523740

If you scroll to the bottom of the description, you can see that the eBay seller amended it during the night:

On Apr-09-10 at 14:37:03 PDT, seller added the following information:

Old Title: VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO (PVD) ANALOGUE 7A38-7280 CHRONO WATCH

New Title: VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO BLACK CHROME PLATING ANALOGUE 7A38-7280 CHRONO WATCH

Correction:

* This watch Tachymeter dial ring has been changed from black to white.

* The back case changed from 7A38-7290 to 7A38-7280

* This watch is Seiko’s black chrome plating not PVD

* Black plated crown changed to gold crown

Pretty much in line with what I'd written in my first couple of posts. smartass.gif

I suspect someone may have drawn his attention to this thread, which he acted on accordingly, and ....

.... then, sometime after that, a 'person unknown' made him an offer to end the auction early (off eBay). lookaround.gif

Relisted here http://cgi.ebay.ph/V...=item1c11a1ce31

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Posted · Report post

I that is a great testiment to the seller that he relisted with the ammended information... :)

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I that is a great testiment to the seller that he relisted with the ammended information... smile.gif

Yes. I think he can thank Seiko for the info.....must read the forum or know someone who does!

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Posted · Report post

At the risk of becoming boringly repetitive .... :yawn:

I thought it might be a good idea to keep these together (in future) under one '7A38 Franken' thread. :pardon:

Good idea Paul, perhaps a sticky at the top of the Japanese page :bag:

Regards

Derek

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Posted (edited) · Report post

In case you missed it, this was the eBay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120554523740

If you scroll to the bottom of the description, you can see that the eBay seller amended it during the night ....

I suspect someone may have drawn his attention to this thread, which he acted on accordingly, and ....

.... then, sometime after that, a 'person unknown' made him an offer to end the auction early (off eBay). :lookaround:

Relisted here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120554901041

That is a great testament to the seller that he relisted with the amended information... :)

Sincere apologies to the eBay seller, for my earlier incorrect assumption .... and posting without checking first. :blush:

My faith in human nature is temporarily restored. :angel_not:

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted (edited) · Report post

.... and posting without checking first. :blush:

I also need to correct something else which I wrote earlier (in haste). :rolleyes:

I definitely already knew that the 7A38-7295 was an 'offshore-produced' version of the 7A38-7290 ....

For the simple fact that 'Japan' was missing from the printing at the bottom of the dial face, and also the case-back.

I'd studied the two low res .bmp images (of a case-back) which I had on file, zooming in, and convinced myself ....

That the well worn stamping in the middle of the case-back read 'MALAYSIA'.

But all I could really make out clearly were the first two letters 'MA'.

So today, I did some more research, specifically on the 7A38-7295.

There isn't very much comes up in the way of Google search results.

However, I found this thread (in Portuguese) on a Brazilian watch forum: http://forum.tempusvivendi.com.br/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=935

The OP (another Paul) included these photos of his pristine example.

(he had replaced the original black-coated bracelet with a leather strap):

7A38-7295-BlackBlackLeatherStrap-1.jpg

7A38-7295-BlackBlackLeatherStrap-2.jpg

A Google / Babelfish (rough-ish) translation of part of his post reads:

The one I bought has two references: 7A38 722S R on the display

(meaning dial face – compared to JAPAN 7A38 722L on a 7A38-7290)

and 7A38-7295 in the background beyond the radius of the stamp ZFM.

And there's the answer 'ZFM'. :dontgetit:

With more googling, I'm now better able to decipher that case-back engraving.

I reckon that it actually reads (or once read): Product Z.F. MANAUS Ind.

Meaning that the 7A38-7295 was not made in Malaysia (nor Manila) .... but in Seiko's plant in Brazil !!

Sorry for the off-topic ramble. :offtopic2:

So, I can conclude, our eBay Franken '7A38-7280' definitely began life as a 7A38-7290 – not a 7A38-7295 ! :wink2:

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I thought it might be a good idea to keep these together (in future) under one '7A38 Franken' thread. :pardon:

I don't think there's really much need to comment on, or question José Sotto's ('watchcooking') latest eBay listing:

RARE VINTAGE SEIKO QUARTZ SPEEDMASTER? CHRONO 7A38

IMG_9577.jpg

It obviously once was a 7A38-7070 'Diver', that he has breathed new life into. :)

Like the man says: 'Replacement Bracelet - Incorrect Case-Back' (off a 7A38-7190).

Honestly described as always :thumbsup: .... though he didn't mention the bezel insert in his description, did he ? :lookaround:

Another thing, the 7A38-7070 didn't have a SpeedMaster bracelet clasp - probably thinking about the 7A38-6040. :wink2:

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted · Report post

Honestly described as always :thumbsup: .... though he didn't mention the bezel insert in his description, did he ? :lookaround:

Yes, of course he did:

BEZEL: Bezel insert a replacement, customized.

How did I manage to miss that ? :oops:

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I don't think there's really much need to comment on, or question José Sotto's ('watchcooking') latest eBay listing:

RARE VINTAGE SEIKO QUARTZ SPEEDMASTER? CHRONO 7A38

IMG_9577.jpg

It obviously once was a 7A38-7070 'Diver', that he has breathed new life into. :)

.... the 7A38-7070 didn't have a SpeedMaster bracelet clasp - probably thinking about the 7A38-6040.

José has since removed the word 'SpeedMaster?' from his eBay listing's title and description. :thumbsup:

Edited by SEIKO7A38Fan

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Posted · Report post

I say keep em coming Paul.... I find the Franken thread gripping! Its like a WHO DUNNIT and WHO'S DONE WHAT! Plus its an education in WATCH UN-COOKING....thumbsup.gif

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I now realise that a lot of these Seiko chronograph watches that are offered on Ebay and possibly other sites as well are not 'As they left the Seiko factory'. A lot of them have been modified but what I can't quite understand is the amount of scorn that's directed at these modified watches by some members of the forum. The same forum that has members heaping praise on some Seiko that's just been highly modified by a fellow forum member. Hasn't he/she just produced a similar Fraken watch ?

There was one modified watch featured recently that had been highly modified and there were members queueing up so say what a great job and how marvellous it looked. The modifications had been carried out with a high degree of skill but as far as the colour scheme was concerned it actually looked as if someone had been sick inside the case. It was hideous. I appreciate that ones mans idea of perfection isn't everyones but come on guys if it isn't nice to see then lets say so. We're quick enough to slate these Franken Seikos on Ebay.

I appreciate the people on Ebay are often attempting to pass off their watches as 'Genuine, Rare, Authentic, etc etc" which is naughty. A case of buyer beware I believe.

The point of this ramble is simply this. If you like the look of what's being offered on Ebay and you're prepared to pay the money then why not go for it ? So it's not as it left Seiko, so what. I recently bid on one of these fraken seikos and was outbid in the last few seconds by less than $3.0. If anyone has a working Seiko of the type featured in this posting I'd be very interested in buying it. Even if the chapter ring is dark grey and not black and the difference can only be seen under strong light with the watch held at a certain angle ! :thumbsup:

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