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scottswatches

early calendar movement identification?

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Fresh in is this silver cased watch with calendar

20171114_132251

the calendar is interesting on a silver watch of this design - look at the calendar wheel (top right)!

20171114_132044

I have tried with the help of dr Ranfft to id this movement but failed - can anyone spot what it might be?  23mm wide

and the silver case has unusual stamps too - apposing F's indicating Glasgow, an 'i' in it's own bubble and 925 for silver.  If the 'i' was in an upside down shield this would indicate 1931 - extremely early for a date mechanism I think (but suits the styling and case size)

20171114_132130

Any thoughts, especially on the movement ID

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Bulova retailed a similar calendar watch, as per the first watch in this article, which is dated to 1932.

http://www.watchophilia.com/news/four-incredible-new-acquisitions-/

Here is another example, from the Rytime Watch Company, which is also dated to the early 1930s.

http://www.cjbalm.com/watches/watch380.htm

Neither have the same movement as in your watch but they are from the same approximate date so may be of some interest / help. :)

 

 

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Might be worth concentrating on the case. FF is the imported Glasgow silver mark ...can’t make the numbers read 925 though. ASM?  Or A5M.? Sorry can’t help.but interesting piece.

A5M  seems to be the one....Vernon Grauer were known as agents for high end watch cases so might be worth looking at their history.

 

Edited by bridgeman

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What about the shock protection - might point to a movement manufacturer or help to narrow down the dates a little?

I'm no expert on early shock protection systems but I would generally expect a late twenties/early thirties watch to have fixed (screwed) caps on the balance pivots. Also, the movement seems to have a curious extra screw through the barrel bridge?

 

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Still no expert on the Anti-Shock things but a bit of bored googling has more or less answered my own question. The main archive I found is in German, so I'll convey the essential information - it seems to be a variant of the 'Shock-Resist' system introduced by Swiss firm Erismann Schinz. This firm has anti-shock patents going back to the late 20s,  it seems this one was patented at the end of the 1929. Here is a promotion from 1930, The trademarks for the system were registered in 1934 and 1936 so it was still apparently going strong then -

https://watch-wiki.org/images/a/a1/Fabrique_Du_Grenier._FH_20_Sept._1930.jpg

So that seems to chime with the case hallmark date then, of course its also not impossible that there could be a couple of years between case hallmarking and building it up into a watch.. No idea on the base movement I'm afraid.

If you want to find some of the other old shock-protection info, try googling Stoßsicherung.

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Thank you @stromspeicher - your boredom and language skills have helped immensely.  

I think I have to take the dial off to try and find a mark on that side.

This watch is getting more and more cutting edge (for the 30's!)

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It seems as if the casemark A5M does mean something

A (number) M

A2M 
A2M

Watch cases with Glasgow Assay Office import hallmarks turn up with a sponsor's mark made up of the letters A and M separated by a number, such as the A2M mark shown here. I have seen examples of A2M, A5M, A10M and A11M. They all look similar to this one, made with an incuse punch with no surround. Unfortunately the records for the Glasgow Assay Office were mainly lost when the office closed in 1964 and we don't have records of who registered these marks.

These marks are somewhat similar to the J (symbol) W punches thought to have been registered by James Weir. It seems likely that the company who entered the mark was acting as assay agent for several different Swiss manufacturers and that the number was used for administrative purposes to identify who each watch case belonged to.

The Edinburgh Assay Office database includes an A5M mark registered by J Véron Grauer & Co of Geneva, described as a "Forwarding agency". This company still exists as a logistics company in Switzerland and traces its history back to 1867. Véron-Grauerspecialised in products of high value such as watches and jewellery, and also in customs clearance.

It seems likely that Véron Grauer were performing the role of assay agent for Swiss watch case manufacturers in the same way as Stockwell & Co. It seems likely that Véron Grauer were part of the continent wide network of shipping agents including Messageries Nationales Express and the Messageries Anglo-Suisses that Stockwell & Co. also belonged to.

 

A new avenue of investigation!

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